Not saying “old fans good, new fans bad” but it seems pretty clear that UM is very happy to cater to the growing group of people who find standard versions of songs HOF worthy. It’s certainly easier for them to do that, but with their level of ability and care for their craft that they have, I’m disappointed it’s evolved to where it has.
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Management via bort polls is the answer.
@OSUmBeaverPhreak writes the bands press releases.
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This would be interesting. No talkbacks would be good for extended jams but I am guessing the shows would be much much sloppier.
This argument can certainly be applied to pretty much every otehr jambland on the scene. Nobody is doing anything new in jam terms IMO, it’s the same old stuff. Is Bisco doing anything new with their jams? No, is Phish doing anything new? No. If you want to take the argument in this direction you can say all the bands on the scene are nostalgia acts and the ones that aren’t (Goose & Spafford) are basically just a rip-off hybrid of Phish + UM + Bisco.
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Ya but some of them are sticking with a formula that works for them. Alpine Ruby Waves was 30+ mins. Whether or not you thought it was a good jam they were swinging for the fences just like they did in the early 90s.
Yeah and the exact same is true for UM. They have definitely found a formula that works for them and the large majority of their fanbase.
Also, the Ruby Waves jam is a great example of a jam is basically 5-6 different 4-5 min segments that are stitched together, the exact thing yall are criticizing UM for…
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FWIW, I love lots of UM jams that have different sections. Lots of Phish and Biscuits jams have sections, too, although it is more common with UM. I just dont find UM’s current improv to not be very interesting or satisfying. It sounds like plenty of you still do, which is great. I have friends who hate current Phish. I have friends who love current Biscuits, but hate 1.0 Biscuits. The fact is, bands have different phases in their careers if they are around long enough, and sometimes people who like one era wont like another, and vice versa. UM is not the same band they were 8 years ago, and 8 years ago they werent the same band they were 15 years ago. I just so happened to love both of those eras, and tend to be far less interested in what they do now.
That is a product of listening to the band more and learning their tendencies. Same with seeing predictability in their setlists.
Oh, for sure, but it also was not really a jam, which was my point. I don’t mind Mrs. Robinson’s Strut at all, but when people try to use it as an example of them still having really good thought out original grooves, it kinda makes their argument a bit void.
Edit: and not only because it is a repeated stew, but because it is also a repeated stew from 2006.
Good points. The formula definitely works for them, that much is true.
I know they exist but I’m yet to meet a phan who saw shows in the 90s who doesn’t enjoy what they’ve been doing the past 4/5 years. Whereas this board seems to be entirely made up of people who saw shows in ‘07-‘11 and don’t really enjoy seeing them recently.
Both bands have a formula that works, one just retained a larger percentage of their fanbase with theirs.
Standard UM shows are still better than 70% of the other crap out there.
This was probably the worst band to use to make your point, because starting fall 2019 the biscuits literally did start doing something new with their jams.
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I don’t have time the respond to this discussion at the moment but this exceptionally great discussion about the band is why V4J>The Bort, just saying.
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*V4J < the bort
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I was being sarcastic, lol.
Oh! Self’d
Check out the Ocean Billy from Eugene this year for a great example of a long, continuous, patient jam.
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I was speaking more generally about “knowing” whether the band is truly improvising or not, being able to tell where a jam is going, etc.
Phish was able to retain more of their fanbase because they have been a nostalgia act for longer than half their fans have been alive.
Excellent post sir. Congratulations.
A little background before I start rambling…
My first Phish show was the Clifford Ball in '96. I’ve seen 86 Phish shows, 30 of which were 1.0, 32 were 2.0 and 24 were 3.0.
My first UM show was 7/15/04 Lancaster PA. I’ve seen 452 UM shows, 91 were in '07 alone.
My first Biscuits show was 8/27/05 Van Etten NY which happened to be Sammy’s “last” show and I’ve seen 210 Biscuits shows. The most Biscuits shows I saw in a single year was '09…don’t feel like looking at the exact number but it was 30 something…
I was so burnt-out on Phish in '04, Vegas that spring was miserable and I started listening to UM right around that time and I was hooked. I grew up with my older brothers listening to Van Halen, Metallica, Motley Crue and that kinda stuff and then I loved GNR and the grunge era bands so UM was a perfect blend of rock/jambands.
I was burnt-out on UM after seeing a shit-ton of shows '04 through '08 and focused on the Biscuits in '09 which paid off because it was one of their best years with Allen…maybe their best year.
I love all 3 bands but I really don’t care for Phish’s 3.0 material minus a handful of songs so their shows for me are hit-or-miss nowadays. I feel the same regarding their jams, a lot are meandering and boring as all hell. The Biscuits have been playing much better the last few years after being very hit-or-miss from 2011-2016. They are easily my second favorite band. They are the ultimate party band and are the absolute best at what they do but I can only listen to so much Biscuits because after awhile the lack of variation in their styles starts to get old to my ears.
UM just does it for me and will always be my favorite band. Have they changed and grown since I began seeing them in '04? Sure, it’s a good thing they have because all good bands evolve. I still listen to a ton of shows from '03-08 but I love a ton of shows since that era as well. 2019 was UM’s best year since 2013 IMO and I love a ton of their jams from last year as much as I love some of their jams from '03-'08. They are the most consistent band out there night-in and night-out. I go to their shows with zero expectations at this point and I never really walk out of a show disappointed.
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Yea, it really just comes down to preference. Like I said earlier, there has been times I have felt the same way about Phish and the Biscuits as I felt about UM from 2014-2017. Bands have highs and lows. Those are defintiely my three favorite bands to see live overall. Right now I would probably take Billy Strings and JRAD over UM, but over a long period of time, it is obviously UM.
I think the new era Phish songs are a good point to bring up. A lot of people hate most of those. I love a couple, like a few, hate a few. I am not big on many of the UM songs written over the last 10 years, but again, there are a few I really enjoy.
I also get why some Phish and Biscuits jams/shows are hit-or-miss. They are for me, too, but when it hits it just seems to hit a lot harder. UM shows are a bit more hit-or-miss for my tastes. That definitely did not use to be the case. They were always the consistent band that always seemed to have something that I took home with me loving, but that just is not the case most the time anymore. I go, I have fun, then within an hour or two after the show nothing stands out.
I dont go into shows from any of those three bands, or really any jam band in general, with expectations. Jam bands are the defintiion of hit-or-miss. When its great its great, when its bad its bad, when its somewhere in the middle its just a good excuse to hang with friends, dance, and get drunk.
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